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Mark Hatmaker Interview by Greg Hall
Mark Hatmaker has 24 years experience in the Martial Arts (boxing, wrestling, Muay-Thai, and Jiu-Jitsu) including 19 years of instructing, he is a highly regarded coach of professional and amateur fighters, law enforcement officials and security personnel. Mark is founder of Extreme Self Protection (ESP), a research body that compiles, analyses and teaches the most effective unarmed methods known.
Greg Hall - Can you tell us a bit about your background in the martial arts?
Mark Good question. I wish I had an exciting answer. Started out with the usual boyhood fascination with martial arts, Bruce Lee and the like. That segued very early into boxing and wrestling. On the side I pursued a few different eastern disciplines that I actually achieved some rank in. I won't mention these disciplines, not because I'm knocking them, they just weren't the right fit for me. I pursued them because the common knowledge was that these arts were the way to go. After a few years of playing these games I evaluated what should have been obvious the entire time. Any and all success I had in these Eastern arts actually came because of my experience and continual drilling in western boxing and western wrestling. So, eventually, I got it through my thick head that I should pursue the strategy that works. I've been doing that ever since
Greg Hall-Can you explain what Extreme Self Protection represents?
Mark Again, good question with a prosaic answer. Extreme Self Protection (ESP) is nothing more than a name pulled from a hat to label the version of boxing and wrestling we promulgate. I was calling it simply boxing and wrestling when my first instructional tape deal came through. That deal was with TRS and they being the shrill, exaggerated Mark eters that they are requested something that sounded a bit "Grrrr!" Being naive at the time, I said OK, and ESP was the name that came up. Rather than switch horses in the middle of the stream it's the name I'll stick with.
Greg Hall-What are the different aspects of the western Martial Arts you practice and teach?
Mark Boxing and wrestling--period. Now, the boxing is all the old school, hard-core work with elbows, stomps, head-butts, sucker shots, and inserts included and modified via the modern incarnation of the sweet science and the wrestling game is old school scientific submission wrestling tinged with contemporary Greco-Roman and freestyle wrestling. We also do stripped-down call-and-response blade work and have a unit of study for nothing but straight street/survival combatives.
Greg Hall-What made you want to do these forms of Martial arts over the Eastern Martial Arts?
Mark Effectiveness. The form of boxing and wrestling that we do provides immediate feedback as to whether or not a technique or strategy is effective. The pragmatics of the western arts permits no theorizing or posturing. The laboratory of the ring and the mat allow the empirical method to reign supreme.
Greg Hall-Who over your training and teaching lifespan do you think has influenced the way you train the most?
Mark Excellent question!! My list is vast. As a matter of fact on our website we have an entire page called IN GRATITUDE that is nothing but a partial list of influences. I've found my influences can come from anywhere. That can be anyone I've ever trained with to a significant paragraph in an old training manual. Anything that makes me mull over and consider what it is I do, I am deeply indebted to. To be honest, to single out a single individual would be a disservice to the dozens of individuals who still drift through my thinking and approach each and every day of my life. I always say, anything you enjoy in my teaching should also be credited to those who have influenced me. Anything that you perceive as a mistake is solely my fault.
Greg Hall-I know you have trained with some excellent instructors can you name a few and say a little about what each one gave you?
Mark This question is a corollary of the preceding one. Again, for a partial list check the GRATITUDE page. If they are on there, they are in some sense my better as they had an influential thought or approach and they had before I did. It is through the efforts of those on that page and many others too numerous to mention that have allowed me to be able to accomplish what I do.
Greg Hall-You have a remote training and instructor certification programme can you describe a little of what that consists of please Mark?
Mark Since we have so many people interested in what we do all over the globe this program was generated to supply those in hard to reach areas with quality instruction no matter the distance. Essentially, this program allows us to use a continuous correspondence of video, e-mail, and phone conversations to offer coaching points, training progressions, and certification for some individuals that I may never have the honour of meeting. This is not a "buy your rank" program by any stretch. We study the individual's training tapes hard and strive to give detailed coaching points just as if we were right there in the mat or in the ring with them.
Greg Hall-It is obvious you advocate hard physical training can you give us a little overview of what your specific and general training regime consists of?
Mark Our GLADIATOR PROGRAM and the soon to be released MEGA-GLADIATOR lay out my thoughts in detail on this subject. In a nutshell, the old fighter's maxim: "Fights are won in the gym not the ring," and the Spec warriors mantra of "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat," are truisms. The Western Combat arts are founded upon a base of extreme conditioning. Without those, the outer limits of the game cannot be explored. As for specifics, weights versus body weight? Both. First and foremost though, cultivate body weight exercise mastery. If you can't move your own body comfortably in all ranges of motion for high, high repetitions, skip the weights. Your own body is your first weight set. Once you've got this weight set on the road to mastery, augmenting and supplementing with iron in a sport specific manner is a natural progression.
Greg Hall-I myself am a hardened follower of combatives among other things with over 12 years as a doorman, your Predator Profiles section on your website has some very serious and graphic descriptions of actual people and events can you elaborate a little please Mark?
Mark I provide that material as an antidote to the illusions that sport or "trick" moves will protect us against the serious predator. If we refuse to admit the reality of the predator mindset I think we are little prepared to handle ourselves when confronted with this vicious beast. The heinous nature of the facts of violent assault informs our street program through and through
Greg Hall-I believe that everyone should do some kind of self protection training or get their kids involved in it as well and if they don't they are doing themselves and their loved ones a disservice, what is your view on this?
Mark Absoluty. Information is key. Now, where I differ with many is the weight given to mind setting and psychological prevention. Unless one is involved in security, military, or law enforcement work, which by its nature guarantees confrontation I think the majority of the population needs education regarding the psychological mechanics of the predator and then use this information to remove themselves from the predator's victim-set.
Greg Hall-You have a knife system within Extreme Self Protection; can you give a brief overview of what your views on knife defence are?
Mark Fear, first and foremost. When it comes to blade work I utilize the philosophy of cowardice. Never knife fight or face a blade if one can help it. If one can't help it go for equalizers. If that is out of the question, then that's where our blade training comes in. There is no finesse to our blade system. We use a simple numbering system and run call-and-response as we do in our grappling and boxing--bit, ideally, we focus on equalizers: environment, evasion, and drag downs. It has none of the finesse and inherent beauty of the Filipino or other baroque systems but it seems to do the job in a short amount of time.
Greg Hall-You currently have a Zillion books and videos out at the moment and the ones I have are all excellent could you list some of them and maybe give a little description of each please?
Mark Wow! We've got a lot out there. You're right about that. Pushing 50 titles I believe. Rather than bore anyone as I wrack my brain to remember what we've got on the market, what's coming out, and what's on the books for release, I'll just say see the products portion of our web page for a delineation of what we've got out there right now.
Greg Hall-Where would you like to see the future of Extreme Self Protection in say the next ten years?
Mark Keep on, keeping on. I got into this because I love these old school arts. I'll keep training them until I drop. In the meantime, I hope to be able to introduce the beauty and effectiveness of these arts to as many people that desire. There is no bigger kick than to see an individual introduced to these games and then watching the creative juices flow as they reap almost immediate dividends from the training of these pragmatic arts.
Greg Hall-I myself have trained with you and can vouch for the effectiveness of the style of grappling that you teach, but I have only seen limited amounts of The Old School Grappling and mostly on DVD or Video, why do you think it's not as popular as say Jujitsu or Judo?
Mark I can offer a few possibilities. One, the effectiveness of BJJ in NHB matches of the 90's was the vanguard of the grappling; "resurgence" is the wrong word, a better term, and "grappling awareness." Since that art was to the forefront, it seems an obvious choice to look to. Two: Old school pro has the stigma of today's "pro wrestling" to overcome. It's very easy to conflate the two and confuse your opinion believing that the fake world or fake wrestling is a mirror of the real world of wrestling. To be honest, there is probably another answer to look to, the tendency of people to want to look towards the eastern arts for mystical answers. There is no fluff or metaphysics with the Western arts, just real world results.
Greg Hall-Thank you Mark for taking the time to do this interview with me and good luck in the future!!
Mark My pleasure my friend. Thanks for your interest.
Mark has made me the UK rep for his system and I am an associate instructor for Extreme Self Protection (ESPUK).
Anyone who wants to learn this very efficient and fascinating system should get in touch with me on email-panantukanuk@yahoo.co.uk, TEL; 07792255004, WEBSITE www.greg-hall.co.uk
Anyone wishing to host me or Mark for a seminar get in touch on the same contact details as above.
Mark's website www.extremeselfprotection.com
By Greg Hall
Posted 5/18/2005
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